An Interview with J.D. Tseng

How long have you known Wang Yi? Can you describe what he was like when you first met him?

I have known Wang Yi for about 20 years. I met him for the first time at a tea house by the Funan River. At that time, he was not yet a Christian but a famous dissident and Internet writer (while teaching law at Chengdu University). I liked his online writings and appreciated his sharp thinking and talent in writing. But after meeting him in person I was even more impressed by him. He was intelligent, warm, and gentle. We became friends immediately. His friends in Chengdu were very fond of him – we called him “Chubby Wang”, an affectionate nickname. Although he still had a lot of questions and reservations about Christianity, he was open and honest about faith, and we had good, deep discussions about faith over fragrant jasmine tea.

What was shaping his thinking at the time? What human rights was he interested in?

At that time, he wrote a lot about politics in China – about democracy, history, constitutionalism, etc. He regarded himself as “a child of the June 4th movement” (1). His political concern was initially similar to traditional Confucian Chinese intellectuals, yet he was very open to Western thinking. He wrote a lot about human rights, especially freedom of speech and religious liberty. And obviously he was very learned not only about Chinese history and literature, but about Western thinking.

What convinced him to become a Christian?

Because he was open to Western thinking, and because he probably regarded Christian culture as part of Western civilization, he was interested in Christianity. He would sometimes discuss or even debate with Christians on Internet forums about the Christian faith and he quoted the Bible occasionally in his writings. I think he gradually started to see the theological (especially Calvinist) foundation of much of Western political thought and became more and more interested and admiring of the Christian faith itself.

Then his wife Jiang Rong became a Christian, and he and Rong started to have a Bible study group at their home, even though he was not a believer yet. Some Christians in Chengdu and some diaspora Chinese Christians who visited Chengdu participated in the Bible studies, and probably influenced Wang Yi to know the Bible and Christianity more profoundly. He became closer and closer to the gospel itself – instead of just admiring Christian culture. (Many Chinese are “cultural admirers” of Christianity but not committed believers of Christ today.)

How did his thinking begin to change as a result of becoming a Christian? What were his major influences?

His change was probably most obvious in his writings. He wrote more and more about Christianity. He sounded more and more like a confessional Christian instead of a cultural Christian. He had less bitterness but more tolerance, patience, and kindness. Some of his non-Christian, free-thinking, politically liberal (in the Chinese sense of having more rights and freedoms) friends started to lament that he was losing his mind and falling to superstitious religion. He would sometimes dialogue with non-Christians and defend the Christian faith. But he was not overly argumentative and showed humbleness and respect to others who disagreed with him.

How was he seen by others in the academic community after he became a Christian?

At that time there were much fewer Christians in the academic community, so most people in that circle probably saw him as a lost free thinker who fell to religious fervor.

How was he viewed by other house church pastors as a former legal professor / human rights lawyer?

In the beginning he was not well known among pastors – most Chinese house church leaders were not so interested in dissident writings or human rights or any political issue. After Wang Yi became a Christian, and then ordained as a pastor, he got more and more attention from house church Christians. Some initially assumed he was one of those cultural Christians (influential in the public square but without confessional commitment to the church) because of his legal/human rights background. The prejudice and misjudgment remains for some even today. And later more house church leaders became afraid and worried that Wang was “using religion to do politics” and was too political and controversial and connected with people outside China, giving the CCP more excuse to persecute the house church. But there were others who started to realize that Wang was sincerely doing things because of his faith, not because he had a hidden political agenda. Many later became strong supporters and even admirers of Wang Yi.

What is unique about his approach to the church-state question? To Christianity’s engagement with culture?

On the one hand, Wang is different from some of the house church leaders who, out of fundamentalist and pietist heritage, are avoiding and fearful of openly talking about the question (which they regard as “political” and “anti-government”). He is open, outspoken, and brave (but not reckless). Even some non-Christian intellectual influencers admire his moral courage. On the other hand, he is different from many dissident influencers too. His discourse is not only gospel-centered but also warmer, calmer, with more empathy and sympathy, with a loving, forgiving attitude to those who disagree with or even attack him.

What is known about him since he was taken into custody?

Very little is known. There is one poem that he wrote in jail about how he missed his son (I have the English translation – a deeply touching short poem) that was leaked out, and the picture which was used on the cover of this book. It is very painful for me to see how thin “Chubby Wang” is now.

What is his significance in China today?

Today we are into Xi Jinping’s third term (2). Some Chinese say that “2022 will become the best year of the next 20-30 years,” expressing their pessimism about the economy, politics, and society as a whole... and the church is no exception. Persecution of the house church has become extremely harsh. The house church is truly experiencing a dark time. Then there were these recent (rare) protests. All of these prove that Wang Yi’s theology and thinking on the church-state relationship is so relevant and significant today. I pray that more Chinese intellectuals will read Wang Yi’s writings in Chinese and watch his sermon videos.

Notes:

1. A reference to the Tiananmen Square Protests of 1989.

2. Xi Jinping has reversed course from previous presidents of China who allowed more freedom of religion and has cracked down on many cultural and religious groups.